I too dont know why DK64 had been slammed so much :unsure: , I had fun with it.


Estapol: I have Split the "Getting an Xbox" thread, and merged the new thread into Moggo's Rare thread, which is what we are in now.

So yeah, all Rare talk goes here. :thumbsup:

Twas fun, just a little too big. Woohoo, let's revisit the levels 600 times and spend hours and hours collecting BANANAS!
Banjo Tooie was top of the crop for me. 500% better than the original.

mmmmmm... Bananas!

For me the higlight of Donkey Kong 64 was playing it with friends, but we got bored with it very quickly once we had Super Mash Bro.

And the only part I could stand of Starfox Adventures was the flying, a small part unfortunately...

Uh, yeah, back on topic :D
Any news of a price drop? I need an xbox but I'm not willing to pay $280 at the moment...

I thought the flying was mediocre...nothing like Lylat Wars. :(
And the rest of the game was an average Zelda clone, if it had the same depth of the Wind Waker, I probably would have liked it...but as it stands, it's a tarnish the to Starfox brand.

In fact, if they call Starfox Assualt, Starwing Assualt, or Lylat Wars Assualt, I wonder if they can get away with kicking Adventures out of the franshise. :P

Oh yeah, Xbox...um, yeah, Burnout 3; good. Get a box for Burnout 3. :)

If you didn't realise it was Nintendo who ordered Rare to change the style of the game to incorporate the Starfox characters. I suspect that Rare would have made it a lot more original had it not been for Nintendo.

I'm fully aware of that, but just because they replaced a character does not mean that they had to numb down thier combat system, which means it was crappy to begin with.

The combat system isn't far from the simplistic one found in Zelda. You can't complain about one and not the other. I guess the fact it was originally intended for the N64 is also another factor that has to be taken into consideration.

I liked Starfox, sort of. It was a complete Zelda rip-off, down to minor details at times, but it was enjoyable.

While on the Rareware subject, has anyone played Grabbed by the Ghoulies? Not meant to be too great, but since I'm getting an Xbox soon, I'm wondering if it's worth a bash. I want to see how Rare is going, now that I can :P I still have a little hope in them.

It's something linke $30 so yeah...

And a character change doesn't excuse it being, in my opinion, a boring game.

I wouldn't worry about being screwed too much, spare a thought for the poor sods who bought a GameCube, almost solely for the fact Rare would have exclusive games on the console. I was one of them...

The art direction and style was quite nice, but it boiled down to the complete boredom the game induced. That game wasn't even fun for 5 minutes. I didn't have that momentary feeling of 'this is a bit of alright'. Just sub-par right from the get-go. I think I've completed 2 worlds, just prior to buying Burnout 3. I'll go back to it one day, possibly during the industry lull following E3 next year, just so I can still say I've finished all Rare's games. But, really... :rolleyes:

Spiffing game. Still among my top 5 games of all time. I, too, to this day don't understand where all the hatred towards the title comes from. I had a ball with the thing, injected about 140 hours in before I moved on to Perfect Dark, and don't regret a minute. Okay, the Beaver Bother bits were infuriating, and remain uncompleted. Shutup. :P

I enjoyed it, possibly more than I would have had it not had beatiful visuals. Some of the environments were stunning, and the polish of the game is typical Rare. Pity a few of the game idea tended to be boring, repetitive, or just plain bad. Voice work, animation, boss battles and, as mentioned, the visuals all brought the game up a few notches however. Good fun, just not brilliant.

There's no doubting that Nintendo had a detrimental impact on the final version of the game, but there's also no doubting that regardless of Nintendo's impact, the combat system was rubbish, and the repetition almost nauseating.

Still, if the videos of Conker and the like are anything to go by, Rare's gradual demise from its once lofty heights may finally be arrested. Here's hoping.

-------------

Moggo,
Evolution's Resident Rareoligist

I agree with you there; it's visuals are some of the best I've seen in a console game this generation.

Just think; what if Rare had stayed with Nintendo?
Since they didn't have to waste time ajusting themselves to new hardware, might we have a fully polished version of Kameo and Conker on shelves?

If Adventures is anything to go by, I'd say we'd have some visually stunning games at the moment, they certainly seemed to know how to work that cube...still one look at some of the new Conker videos, and you can see how far they've gotten with the Xbox.

Mmm, interesting. Conker is looking quite good; but being the Live-less sole I am, I would wish they'd give us a bit more of a single player run. Kameo is looking alright, but to me, it looks quite similar to Starfox in ways. I guess we'll see!

Perfect Dark Zero is looking less and less likely for the Xbox, which is very annoying. Makes sense though; there are many good shooters on the Xbox already (lead of course by our friends the Halo duo), even if very good, Perfect Dark simply wouldn't stand out. I'd wonder how they'd do though, now that half the team has left. I hope they can prove their goodness!

Okay first of all, while I would buy it if it were ever to be released, I honestly don't think Perfect Dark needs a sequel. (or a prequel for that matter)

It was one of those classic games that will be better remembered if it were left alone. Bring the sequel on and the series would be more remembered for the latest version. If it's shit, then people will call the franchise shit despite the brilliance of the first game.

Leave it alone says I, that way it can remain at the top of my favourite games ever list. ;)

Donkey Kong 64, like some of you I can't see why it wasn't liked much. Personally I had quite a bit of fun with it, playing it until I finished it 102%. Some parts were slow, boring even but the game was pretty darn sweet anyway. It just had nothing on the Banjo games, Jet Force Gemini or indeed Perfect Dark.

As for Starfox Adventures, well I did enjoy it while it lasted. After the third time through it though (I was playing it while on a holiday in QLD), I realised that it was quite boring. Too easy as well, which is a bummer. If I had it now still, I'd fire it up every so often to look at the beautiful, luscious graphics though. Least that aspect of the game kicked arse.



What's first between Kameo and Conker? It was Kameo, but then it had another delay. Now I've got no idea...

Conker is out soon, and Kameo has been delayed indefinately.(it hasn't been given a date)

I so see where you are coming from. When I first heard of the 'anime-style' Perfect Dark, I was really dissapointed, because it strayed away from the style of game that Perfect Dark had been. I personally felt that Rare nailed that game to such an extent that any variation of its style would devastate me upon the release of its sequel, or, indeed, prequel. I didn't want them to change it, and for me, the only way they could improve it would have been visually... the gameplay was flawless. It took me a while to realise that the only way I would be truly happy and remain that way forever about PD would be if they left the franchise alone and let its brilliance live in infany.

I'm so glad someone else out there regards it as their favourite game ever. It's hard to find people who remember its excellence due to the onslaught of Halo and the like, but every so often you come across someone with sense who can still vividly recall all that was good about the game.

I know that personally, PD will never be surpassed. The only way it could be, would be if a sequel/prequel bettered its perfection. The door will always be slightly ajar. ;)

Like Bro said, Kameo was pushed back while Rare implement another design overhaul. Everytime they got close to feling content with a style, they realised it was too alike to something else in the market.

Conker: Live and Reloaded will be released in early 2005, possibly just prior to E3.

Kameo definitely seems to have the most promise out of the two purely because it has completely new content. I'm also looking forward to Conker however reports have surfaced describing that it is majority the multiplayer component that is receiving the overhaul. Having owned and finished the original several times this doesn't really make the single player mode too appealing for the new version, extra features or not.

Righto, here's the Rare thread for the people that want to discuss Rare.

I'll post my last post about Rare in here, and away we go.

----------------

I so see where you are coming from. When I first heard of the 'anime-style' Perfect Dark, I was really dissapointed, because it strayed away from the style of game that Perfect Dark had been. I personally felt that Rare nailed that game to such an extent that any variation of its style would devastate me upon the release of its sequel, or, indeed, prequel. I didn't want them to change it, and for me, the only way they could improve it would have been visually... the gameplay was flawless. It took me a while to realise that the only way I would be truly happy and remain that way forever about PD would be if they left the franchise alone and let its brilliance live in infany.

I'm so glad someone else out there regards it as their favourite game ever. It's hard to find people who remember its excellence due to the onslaught of Halo and the like, but every so often you come across someone with sense who can still vividly recall all that was good about the game.

I know that personally, PD will never be surpassed. The only way it could be, would be if a sequel/prequel bettered its perfection. The door will always be slightly ajar. ;)

Like Bro said, Kameo was pushed back while Rare implement another design overhaul. Everytime they got close to feling content with a style, they realised it was too alike to something else in the market.

Conker: Live and Reloaded will be released in early 2005, possibly just prior to E3.

Perfect Dark... definetly one of my favourite games. I'm in the belief that the sequel won't be anime style; that's just the style that Rare chose for that particular promotional artwork.

Dunno who said that, but it's a bit silly. Sequels don't change the original game. If the sequel to Perfect Dark was as fun as Daikataina, it wouldn't change the first game!

I was actually all for a cel-shaded approach to the sequel for Perfect Dark. Mind you, when Rare released that character art the cel-shaded technique hadn't been done to death already. As has already been mentioned a lot of people did make the broad assumption that cel-shaded was set to appear throughout the sequel, yet no in-game screens have ever been officially released.

I reckon that if the sequel ever gets released it has got to be for the next generation Microsoft system. I'm sure that is what Microsoft are telling Rare to do as it would definitely ship a lot of consoles.

I was very excited for Kameo last year as it neared it previously scheduled release date however now I have lost a lot of interest. I should have seen such delays coming and when after Goulies turned out to be a nothing game Rare have really disappeared off my radar.

Hopefully when Kameo and the updated Conker are released my interest into this brilliant games company will revive.

Why am I the author of this thread, I was thinking what the hell I dont remember making this?? Then when I saw my post, I realised what happened :lol: .

I was hoping they'd hold off conker for the xenon...

They're much too far into development to make that kind of decision. Besides Rare have to show a project of some real significance, sales-wise and of good quality, to prove to Microsoft that the money purchasing them was well spent.

Oh, and to rub it in Nintendo's face. :P

I can't help but agree with your whole post Moggo. I've always loved PD and I always will. I'll never forget how fucking awesome it is. I seriously hope they ditch the cel shading, or somehow pull a miracle out of their ass, and make the the cel shading work. Either way, Rare fans NEED a new PD game, but not if it's anything short of brilliant.

Oh and I connected my 64 up today (I've actually been playing it a fair bit lately) and decided to play Banjo Tooie all day. Just thought I might share that with you :P Such an awesome game, it's brilliance astounds me. I really hope Rare have plans for part 3, even if it's planned for the Xenon.

It'd be just like Rare to do that, the cheeky sods. However they remain in a happy relationship with Nintendo, working on GBA games, and I guess, alot of the remaining partnership between to the companies has alot to do with mutual respect that was gained in the SNES/N64 years.

I don't see you'll ever see Rare ripping hard on Nintendo, which is saying something considering their cheek.

No chance...

Endless delays just kill the suspense and anticipation. Not even I am that enthused by Kameo, simply because it could easily, and most probably, be a year away from release.

I can always rely on Moggo for a decent Rare discussion. ;)

It wasn't the 'anime-style' graphics that concerned me, it was the fact that a sequel (or prequel as it were) was in development in the first place. As I mentioned earlier it shouldn't happen.

That's the problem with gamers today, they only remember the recent classics. Only a select few remember previous games/generations for what they were. Halo is brilliant, as is its sequel but it has absolutely nothing on Perfect Dark. Heck the Halo games aren't even in my top 10, yet PD is at the very top. Nothing will beat PD...

Graphical styles don't bother me, infact I appreciate them if done correctly.

I said it and how is it silly? I know that sequels don't change the original game's content, but if the sequel is shit people will remember that. Then the more ignorant gamers (there's plenty of them) will hold the entire franchise as shit and they'll forget the brilliance of the first. I class it as the best game ever and therefore I don't want to see a sequel. Even if it's the best sequel ever produced, the original will still remain the best.

I disagree. I think it would be better for us to return to it every so often and enjoy its brilliance for what it is, then to return to if after playing a sequel (no matter how good it is) and thinking "oh the sequel has this, so why does this feel weird now" or something along those lines. We won't be remembering the original for its excellence anymore, we'd be remembering it alongside its sequel. I for one don't like that idea...

Here's hoping I made sense in that last paragraph.

I'll be totally honest; the reason I want a new PD, is because (IMHO) the orginal doesn't play as well, and the graphics are shite.

It's not my fault that the industry has advanced...you said it yourself in refrence to GT3/4; you can't go back to 3 now, as 4 is so much better. Well it's the same with me and Goldeneye/PD and new (PC) FPSers.

Have your opinion, I'm expressing mine after all. ;)
That GT thing is different too, GT4 isn't even out yet. I merely said what I did due to the handling, Prologue was much more precise and I found it quite hard to go back to the loose handling of GT3. GT4 will probably improve on the handling even more when it's released.

Yeah, it's the same priciple if you compare the control's/graphics on PD to a newer shooter.
But the weapons, story and pacing are still great, especially compared to most FPS's these days. :)

Hrm, I know what you mean, and I can indentify with you to a certain extent. I agree that most of us won't be remembering the original for it's excellence if a (decent) sequal is made. That wouldn't be the case with me though. Maybe they could release the original on a bonus disk. Don't know if that would be a good or bad thing. Whatever the case, I'd love to play through PD again with a modern controller. I tried a few weeks ago but the n64 pad is so crap for FPSs :(

EDIT: The graphics aren't an issue for me, even when playing it today. It's still one of the better looking n64 games. It's just the controlls I have a problem with, because I've adapted to modern pads for FPSs.

I don't agree with you Nismo, but hey, what can you do :P
I'll liken it to the Matrix. I loved the first one, as did many. When I heard they were making a sequel, I was skeptical (well, as skeptical as you can be when you're in primary school). They all came out and most people were dissapointed, etc.

While they were based around significantly different ideas to the first, and were more straight action movies, I was glad they came out. Even though they did change the perception of the original, the original was still a fantastic movie, and I enjoyed the sequels. They in some ways ruined the original, but I still enjoy them all as movies...

I guess that's how I see Perfect Dark. They can make a game that''s average and nothing on the original, but even so it would most likely be an enjoyable experience to me, and I'd be thankful for it! More PD Music to listen to, more awesome multiplayer matches, more co-op romps in the PD universe. I'd be thankful for it, despite whether it's not deemed a worthy sequel or not. It could ruin other's perceptions of the original (same as Matrix), but I really wouldn't give an arse, and anyone who loved the first probably won't either!

I'm with you Pauly, slightly. For some reason, I still find PD highly playable, I'm still addicted to it. I CAN'T BEAT FUCKING AREA 51 ON PERFECT AGENT! I'll blow my own trumpet and say that I'm quite good with a 64 pad for FPS's.

(In the last few days, I've gotten PD working on on my PC, through completely legal means, of course ;) . I've been trying it out with a keyboard/mouse combo, it's surprisingly fun! Precision aiming's a bit too hard (differences in joystick and mouse) but when you click Left Mouse (R button) and aim, it's great. Works very well. It's great fun playing Co-Op, one person N64 controller (peripheral) and one person Keyboard/Mouse)

If anyone will accept that a sequel is not needed, it will be Rare. They have more respect for their fans than any other developer.

When you think about it, where can the storyline really progress? Rare had already accepted that making a sequel that was based on events that happened after the events of PD was going to be fairly difficult and possibly damaging, so they decided to go with a 'prequel', which would have enabled them to explore the events that set up the storyline for PD, including how Elvis was coaxed to earth by Carrington, how Cassandra De Vries was corrupted, and to better explain how the relationship between Trent Easton, Mr Blonde and De Vries was formed.

Still, this would have meant no Joanna Dark, because, as you'd remember, Joanna had just finished her training days before being assigned to rescue Dr Carrol, meaning even if the storyline for the sequel/prequel took place mere weeks or months before the events in PD, it would still mean no Joanna. And personally, Joanna is Perfect Dark. Full stop.

That's a nonsense thing to say. The graphics of Super Mario Land are complete rubbish, but does it have any impact, at all, on your ability to enjoy the gameplay? Pfft. If so, you're not a true gaming fan. Same goes with Ocarina of Time.

OH SHIT! LINK'S FACE ONLY CONTAINS 8 POLYGONS, COMPARED TO THE 600 HIS FACE WILL POSSESS IN THE NEW REALISTIC ZELDA! USING MY ADVANCED LOGIC, THIS AUTOMATICALLY MAKES OCARINA AN INFERIOR GAMING EXPERIENCE!

You clod, you!

(Sorry, but ignorance is no excuse for stupidity. :P)

You sir, are a perfect example of the person Nismo refers to...:

... by this, I mean that with the advancement of technology, and the greatly-improved visuals infiltrating the industry and being, annoyingly, the sole focus, these new-fangled visuals have lead you to be unable to see the true beauty of a game... its gamplay.

I'd still MUCH rather play a round of Space Invaders than Ty The Tasmanian Tiger. But wait! By your logic, because Space Invaders is unable to take advantage of the advanced technology that Ty is, Ty is a better game! The absurdity! Don't play this fact down, either. Whether you admit it or not, this is how you're coming across.

At the end of the day, I'll remember PD for its flawless gameplay... its flawless playability. I'll remember it for its intriguing characters, the intricate and interesting storyline and its ease of control. I'll remember vividly its innovation in terms of AI, gameplay mechanics, and yes, visuals. PD, while not only being near perfect in terms of gameplay, was near perfect visually. Remember, this was 2000. PD was the pinnacle of console graphics. Regardless of the advancement of technology, it must be remembered for being the finest of its era.

Yes, the controls are now painfully outdated, and to play the game you must pick up a gamepad that, in most cases, is disintegrating in a powder of white dust. But, like the NES controller, which sported edges that could slice easily throught an elm tree, its all part of the experience, and the beauty.

No advancement of technology, of control or gameplay will be able to take away the joy that PD provided. Never. If, however, you are a person who is engulfed in the the advancement of technology and are one who never looks back, I pity you.

Edit: Err, sorry about the length...

Moggo, that last paragraph was perfect. The rest of the post was pretty good too, but the last paragraph was in particular a brilliant summary :P I'm with you all the way.

Interestingly... did anyone ever play Perfect Dark gameboy? I remember a flaw it created in the storyline... you actually went on a real mission, and I seem to remember it claiming it was Joanna's first. You had to complete the training first.
But in Perfect Dark 64, it claims Datadyne is the first mission. Maybe I'm misremembering, maybe the GB adventure was afterwards, but I'm pretty sure.

Bingo. A sequel or prequel isn't needed at all. There's nothing to progress the story after the events of the original. What can be explored via a prequel would be rather interesting to know, however you're right. Joanna is Perfect Dark and she wouldn't fit in with a prequel. They can go ahead and make a prequel but if they do it will not feel like Perfect Dark purely because we are not in the role of Joanna Dark. Plus who would the main lead be anyway?

You seemed to have missed the point I was making...I never said that because the graphics are (compared to today's standards) shit, and that the controls are, as you put it "painfully outdated", that the game was shit.

I reason that I want a sequel/prequel/remake is that I would (assuming it's of the same quality) enjoy the game more due to it's updated controls, and graphics.

I'm not sure if you read the other thing I said as well...

I never said that the game was shit.

Hell, not long ago I bought a NSTC copy of the orginal Starfox cause I was unhappy with the flight sections in Starfox Adventures and I wanted to play the original in it's full glory.(and my copy of Starwing is too slow ;) )
Yeah, wanting to play one of the 1st 3d games on a console, instead of one of the most graphically impressive games of this generation, yep, I'm all about newfangle graphics. :thumbsup:


Hmmm, all this PD talk somehow triggered a memory of the last PD level where the 3 monlith thingy's change every time you start the level, and you have to go and find the correct 3... :blink:

BTW, why you knocking Ty? I heard it wasn't bad for a platformer. :P

That's just like me and red alert one. After 8 years I still love it most. :)

I hope Rare f**ks up on conker then Bill Gates will scream and say there a waste of money and pay Nintendo to take Rare back :)
Then Rare will make Donkey Kong and Perfect Dark and Star Fox and Jet Force Gemini and Golden Eye :D



I can dream :cheese:

Star Fox? I sure as hell don't want them messing with that again!

Lylat wars was good.

He was referring to StarFox Adventures. Lylat Wars was made in-house by Nintendo.