Title: The lets go on a tangent thread!!
Description: Current topic: Elprez and Persona 3
Drake - January 30, 2008 07:08 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
1. Nintendo Wii
Yeah, Nintendo Wii disappointed me more than anything else in 2007. No, this isn't about the system being underpowered, and it's not some reactionary freakout about casual games killing the industry. Quit your knee-jerking, it's embarrassing for everyone.
On the contrary, I think those are actually two of the system's strongest selling points: it caters to a different crowd than usual, and it demonstrates quite decisively that sheer graphical prowess isn't necessary for good gaming. I'll take Mario Galaxy over Gears of War any ol' day, thanks. I've been an advocate of Nintendo's outside-the-box approach since I took home my first DS in 2004 and watched my elementary school-aged cousins take immediately to it in a way they never had with any other gaming system. Wii has the opportunity to shake up gaming and force everyone to rethink what the medium is all about. And it's doing that, to a degree. But....
I guess it's Nintendo I'm disappointed in, not the Wii. The company has an amazing opportunity to revolutionize gaming (hence the system's code-name!), and it's doing a great job with its first-party content -- games that give us new (and often better) ways to approach old genres, and games that ignore genre conventions to give us entirely new experiences. But look beyond the first-party content and the Wii landscape is bleak. Worse than it was on N64. Worse than on GameCube. At least with GameCube Nintendo made an effort to court big-name exclusives like Resident Evil 4. This time around it's clear they don't even care to try, and the resulting third-party content is overwhelmingly bargain-bin trash. Here's a system that, by the numbers, has twice the horsepower of GameCube -- yet inexplicably most games for the system look worse than low-budget Dreamcast software. And play much, much worse.
It didn't have to be like that; the fact that Wii is an inexpensive system to develop for should have made it a safe harbor for small developers who can't really afford to spend the money to create a high-quality HD title. But no, they're mostly sticking with PlayStation 2, probably because it has a massive existing userbase (and no hardware shortages). Meanwhile, the opportunists see lots of hype for Wii, lots of inexperienced buyers flocking to the system, and Nintendo's policy of letting publishers ship anything for the system regardless of quality. Dollar signs appear in their eyes: here's a perfect opportunity to churn out crap that Sony's approvals department would have nixed for PS2, taking advantage of consumers who don't have a clue for how to go about shopping for good games, raking in tons of quick cash. Nintendo's official line is that consumers will sort it out on their own -- a typically glib mindset from their PR wonks, and one that's likely to be true in ways they don't anticipate. Consumers will sort it out on their own, but chances are that they'll do so by deciding that these video game things aren't that fun after all and they'd rather not waste their money on them, thanks.
Meanwhile, the shovelware ships at $20-30, meaning that anyone who wants to sell a substantial, well-made game for $50 is out of luck if the box doesn't have Mario, Pikachu or Link on it. Zak & Wiki got great reviews... and tanked. Trauma Center doesn't seem to have done so well. And No More Heroes might do OK in the states, but Japan was so disinterested that the director reportedly sat at a table for a launch-day signing in Tokyo's Akihabara district and no one showed up. I don't doubt that Wii will remain hot and profitable throughout 2008... but Nintendo had a truly rare opportunity with Wii, a chance to change the ground rules for hardcore gaming even as they birthed the casual market -- a chance to have real, lasting, long-term impact, like the DS has done for portable gaming. But at this point, I fear, the damage is done, and the Wii market is destined to be a dumping ground for amateurish budget games. Nintendo's stunning first-party games will be king of the hill as always, but that's cold comfort when the hill turns out to be a heap of trash. |
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=860156...cUserId=5379721He contradicts himself a lot, and he really doesn't seem to have a firm grasp on just what is central to his disappointment in Wii. Unsurprisingly, I agree with him on some points (Nintendo's lack of quality control being a pivotal point), but he's off-base on a few, too.
Also, Zack and Wiki would have probably sold poorly regardless of what system it was on. Do not forget, Viewtiful Joe sold better on Gamecube than it did on PS2 despite PS2 having a significantly larger userbase and significantly higher third party software sales. Zack and Wiki is just a niche title that appeals to a specific audience.
borgster101 - January 30, 2008 07:49 AM (GMT)
A lot of the great Wii 3rd party games like Zack & Wiki are also quite niche, which means they wont sell that well regardless of what platform they are released on.
There's no mainstream awesome 3rd party games on Wii like Call of Duty 4, because most of the western 3rd party developers are saving their best teams for 360/PS3. 3rd parties that are putting effort into some quality Wii games also end up making games with niche appeal.
And thus lies the situation for 3rd party games on Wii.
What can YOU do?
You can f*cking buy games like Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry:
Quatters - January 30, 2008 10:33 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (borgster101 @ Jan 30 2008, 05:49 PM) |
What can YOU do?
You can f*cking buy games like Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry: |
Oh so true!
Also force other people to buy the good games.
DJ-Civic - January 30, 2008 04:36 PM (GMT)
Each to his own I guess. Personally I'm more than happy with the Wii, despite being the console that gets less action in my house as the 360 is the main player. The Wii offers a different type of playing that's great after I'm bored with my 360 games, plus its the console of choice when having a party or something. Like how many people are going to crowd around you when playing Halo 3 at a party? Not as many as the ones playing Wii and hitting themselves with Wii-motes that's for sure. ;)
borgster101 - January 31, 2008 09:38 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Quatters @ Jan 30 2008, 08:33 PM) |
| QUOTE (borgster101 @ Jan 30 2008, 05:49 PM) | What can YOU do?
You can f*cking buy games like Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry: |
Oh so true!
Also force other people to buy the good games.
|
Indeed.
For instance .. new avatar and custom title!! Yeah not so subtle, but the subte thing didnt really work with Dreamfall or Hotel Dusk so this time I'm going more "forceful" :P
NismoR34 - February 1, 2008 05:46 PM (GMT)
Hey, I'd buy Dreamfall in a heartbeat if I had a gaming PC...
I think I agree with this guy actually. Nintendo are too busy advertising to their new casual audience so awesome games like No More Heroes go by un-noticed. These sorts of games are the ones that need to be advertised AS WELL AS the casual shit.
But of course, you need these games to begin with and has been mentioned above most people keep their big-name 3rd party releases for the other two consoles. It's a catch 22 for Nintendo and it's a shame.
I do think they can pull themselves out of the hole though (unlike this editor), they just need to play their cards right and dare I say it, change their attitude a little bit. I mean, when Metroid Prime 3 gets next to no advertising despite it being one of the best games on the console, you know there's something wrong with priorities...
Stevorooni - February 1, 2008 11:52 PM (GMT)
I'm pretty disappointed with the Wii myself. Mario and Zelda games will always be awesome and the system has so much potential but there is just so many quick and easy PS2 ports for the damn thing, and those games are ugly as hell along with having tacked on waggle.
I realise it'll never reach the heights of the 360 and PS3 graphically but the Gamecube had great graphics, the Wii is more powerful yet a lot of games look worse than most GCN games.
borgster101 - February 1, 2008 11:58 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (NismoR34 @ Feb 2 2008, 03:46 AM) |
Hey, I'd buy Dreamfall in a heartbeat if I had a gaming PC...
|
You don't need a very powerful PC, and the game is also available on the original Xbox anyway, pretty sure its compatible with 360 too! :P
But you should play the first game on PC, which is a game from 1999, shouldnt have problems running it! :P
| QUOTE (Nismo) |
| I think I agree with this guy actually. Nintendo are too busy advertising to their new casual audience so awesome games like No More Heroes go by un-noticed. These sorts of games are the ones that need to be advertised AS WELL AS the casual shit. |
Well the thing about this game, is that it's not a Nintendo game, so Nintendo isn't responsible for advertising/promoting it.
I do agree about Metroid though, Nintendo should have pushed the game a bit more, they did do a special preview channel thing on the Wii console itself, and there was the internet advertising campaign. Thing about Metroid though, is that whilst it is awesome it's also had a niche appeal compared to a game like Halo, Nintendo knows this so I guess it's a case of them deciding its not a game worth advertising because everyone who will buy it already knows about it.
Oh yeah ..
BUY ZACK & WIKI PEOPLE! :D
ElPresidente - February 4, 2008 01:06 AM (GMT)
I agree 100% with the eds statements and I generally think Iup is trash. :P
Robert - February 4, 2008 04:37 AM (GMT)
I think the only problem here is with third-party support for the Wii; they might need to concentrate on traditionally-controlled games, and then release the Wiimote innovative ones when they have ideas for them.
ElPresidente - February 4, 2008 06:41 AM (GMT)
The main issue at the moment is that there is little incentive to spend lots of money on good games when you can get a better return out of ports and shovelware while the Wii fever is running high.
borgster101 - February 4, 2008 07:35 AM (GMT)
^ Which is the stupid gamers fault for not buying games like Zack & Wiki :P
Buy it by the way ;)
ElPresidente - February 5, 2008 02:37 AM (GMT)
I plan to very soon. I just wouldn't mind managing to get Persona 3 out of the way before hand. I've not bought too many new games of late and it has been nice to be able to devote my time to a single lengthy title like Persona. I am determined to finish it though. 150 hours and still counting. :D
But Zack & Wiki looks awesome.
borgster101 - February 5, 2008 09:18 AM (GMT)
Wow 150 hours! :o
As long as you buy Zack & Wiki eventually, not locally released until the 21st anyway ;)
NismoR34 - February 5, 2008 05:39 PM (GMT)
Trust me Borg, this computer isn't capable of it. Or at least doesn't seem to be anyway.
Plus, what about The Longest Journey? That's more recent and if I were to play the original, I'd want to play the TLJ as well.
ElPresidente - February 5, 2008 08:40 PM (GMT)
The Longest Journey is the first game in the series as well as the name of series itself.
Your computer will have no troubles with the first title at all. We're talking 2D backgrounds, etc.
Worth hunting down as it is awesome. It is also a self contained story unlike Dreamfall so you can play it and not be left hanging on a storyline cliffhanger waiting til you have a system that can handle Dreamfall.
borgster101 - February 6, 2008 09:11 AM (GMT)
Nismo: Get Longest Journey (the first game) on your PC (it should work damnit!!) and then get Dreamfall (sequel) on Xbox!
:D
Qubert - February 6, 2008 09:19 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (ElPresidente @ Feb 5 2008, 12:37 PM) |
| I plan to very soon. I just wouldn't mind managing to get Persona 3 out of the way before hand. I've not bought too many new games of late and it has been nice to be able to devote my time to a single lengthy title like Persona. I am determined to finish it though. 150 hours and still counting. :D |
What's your main team?
I usually go with...
Main Character (Obvious)
Mitsuru (I lacked an Ice Persona)
Aegis (Because she's Aegis)
Yukari / Akihiko (Yukari for Wind, which I lacked, or Akihiko just for the hell of it)
NismoR34 - February 6, 2008 06:07 PM (GMT)
Heh, well isn't my gaming knowledge shit then?
I thought there was a recent entry in the Longest Journey franchise and when Borg said that my PC should be able to play Dreamfall, I thought it was called TLJ...
See, not a PC gamer. ;)
Also, is the Xbox copy relatively easy to find?
And while we're on the subject of PC games, would this piece of shit be able to play Aquaria? *prays*
borgster101 - February 7, 2008 11:14 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (NismoR34 @ Feb 7 2008, 04:07 AM) |
| Also, is the Xbox copy relatively easy to find? |
You could probably find it online ... so yeah not exactly "easy" like off the shelf.
ElPresidente - February 11, 2008 05:47 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Qubert @ Feb 6 2008, 07:19 PM) |
| QUOTE (ElPresidente @ Feb 5 2008, 12:37 PM) | | I plan to very soon. I just wouldn't mind managing to get Persona 3 out of the way before hand. I've not bought too many new games of late and it has been nice to be able to devote my time to a single lengthy title like Persona. I am determined to finish it though. 150 hours and still counting. :D |
What's your main team?
I usually go with...
Main Character (Obvious)
Mitsuru (I lacked an Ice Persona)
Aegis (Because she's Aegis)
Yukari / Akihiko (Yukari for Wind, which I lacked, or Akihiko just for the hell of it)
|
Depends on what I'm fighting but for general Tartarus crawling I tend to go with...
Main
Mitsuru
Yukari
Ken Amada (he got some good hama uh-huh)
But most of the time I simply take note of the kind of enemies I'm facing in each block and switch people out and in as I go.
Cerebral - February 11, 2008 11:59 PM (GMT)
Hmm yes, I enter a Wii thread and get a Persona 3 discussion out of ElPres. Astounding. :P
ElPresidente - February 12, 2008 01:23 AM (GMT)
Sorry... forgot I was even in the Wii thread. :P
borgster101 - February 12, 2008 07:46 AM (GMT)
This thread has gone so off topic it was due for a title change :P
Qubert - February 12, 2008 08:11 AM (GMT)
:lol: @ thread title, it's about time Persona 3 got its own topic anyway, hey prez? :) One of the most original, and time consuming RPG's I've ever played.
ElPresidente - February 15, 2008 12:32 AM (GMT)
Damn straight... except for the RPG bit... can't go agreeing with that and having people think I've gone soft. :P
But yes, of all the JRPGs I've played this is the one that kicks the most arse.
And thanks for the change there Borgs. :P
borgster101 - February 15, 2008 01:50 AM (GMT)