I have nothing against homosexuality however I am against a child being raised by homosexuals mainly because it just (IMO) feels wrong and unnatural and also harsh on the child.

Pretty much ditto, except I also think that homosexuality is wrong and unnatural.

Far worse raising a child under that roof though.

I'm totally against it. A child has a mother and father, not a father and a father, or a mother and a mother. Besides, having same-sex parents is just going to make the child's life at school utter hell.

To be honest I couldn't be more for it.

I've had a lot of friends who've come from unbelievably shitty family lives, junkie parents, people who were beaten up or thrown out into the streets at 13, sexual and mental abuse, just unbelievable shit.

I know for a fact that every single one of these people would have given anything to have a pair of mentally stable, emotionally caring parents of the same gender who were able to provide for them all the things that make up a good childhood that their biological parents weren't able to.

This goes the same way to me having homosexual friends that I'm quite close to - knowing couples and individuals both male and female, who have all of the intelligence, caring and moral fiber necessary to be responsible for the growth, development and health of a child. I utterly fail to see how sexuality has any baring at all on anyones ability to raise and care for a child.

The majority of anti-gay sentiment is deeply rooted in conservative religion, but I know for a fact that my feelings regarding this have nothing to do with my own atheism, but rather that I've known enough homosexuals to realize that there's just no way I could possibly justify supporting a stance against homosexual adoption - to be honest I don't understand why it's a question or a source of controversy at all.

Getting onto a train at Gosford and seeing a man being arrested for putting a cigarette out on his four year old child's arm makes me wonder how on earth we're worried about responsible, caring homosexuals who might just adopt a child and raise it in a loving and stable environment.

Considering we have single parents, step parents, foster parents and evil alien overlord parents, I don't think it matters that much if a child has 2 mums or 2 dads.
The standard family unit isn't as common as it used to be and I think that as long as the parents raise the kid right then it doesn't matter.

Obviously a male+female parent would be the most balanced because the kid gets a male and female perspective on things as they grow up, but they can get male/female influences from other people in their lives, uncles/aunties, teachers, family friends, grandparents etc, it doesn't have to come directly from the parents.

and lol at the thread title when I first read it, I thought "What, they're putting gay people up for adoption now?" :P

I have no problem with it, as has been said already, having a mother and father doesn't mean that the child is living in a stable healthy environment. Kids are raised by grandparents, uncles, aunts, single parents, older brothers/sisters, the list goes on, is two dudes or two gals really that different to all the other family types?

Imagine yourself having parents that are both homosexual. Your friends come over, and see that you have homosexual parents. Naturally, they will be both stunned and freaked out. You lost honest friendship. You ask a girl out, but she says no, and you have a feeling it's because of that fact that she knows you have homosexual parents. You lost honest relationships. And to be honest, it would be both embarassing and depressing for a kid to have to go to school every day with people staring at him, knowing that they are thinking about his homosexual parents. It could drive a kid to the point where he wants to commit suicide. So yes, I'm definitely against gay adoption, and it should not be permitted in any country, whatsoever. That's just my opinion.

Honest friends are the kinds that hate you for your parents sexuality?

An honest partner is one that can't trust not to leave you because of your parents?

Besides that, are people more likely to think less of you for having gay parents, or binge drinking thieves for parents? Or for parents that hate homosexuals? Or for having parents with drug habits, or for any other thing?

Do you really believe that anyone will ever have that much difficulty adjusting to the presence of someone who's parents aren't different genders? Or that it's morally right punish one demographic for another's prejudice and hatred?

I think at the core of it you have to acknowledge that people will hate you for any number of arbitrary reasons, I had people turn downright actively malicious towards me when I was younger because my parents made very little money (though I should note that I was never left wanting for anything I needed, they were excellent providers), because of how I wore my hair, dressed, spoke, the people I was friends with and how I spent my time, as well as that I was a good student and so on and so on. Being hated for the sexuality of your parents is no different to this, it's totally arbitrary, irrelevant and stupid and I don't think for a second that it's something we should be worried about. If a child is victimized by his 'friends' for having homosexual parents is it really because he has homosexual parents, or because he keeps the company of cruel, ignorant people?

This question to me is exactly the same as asking if people of mixed race should be allowed to have children, out of fear that someone might find it distasteful.

I know that when i was in school I was constantly thinking of the parents of other students...

I couldn't agree more with FreakTrigger, and I'm glad no one has been stupid enough to bring up the ridiculous agreement that gay parents will raise gay children.

What if I decided that I wanted to have children later in my life?

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that my niece found out I was gay this year, and loves me just the same. It doesn't make her time at school any worse, and she even gives people shit if they have negative comments about it.

That's awesome man :)

I have a cousin who came out that he was gay, though I kind of always expected it, so it wasn't a surprise. Unfortunately his parents are very conservative Christians, and don't exactly accept it, but I think they have learned to deal with it, even if they dont like it, his mum told my mum they were trying to "fix" him, my mum shook her head trying to tell her that it's something that needs fixing, but it didnt seem to get through.

Unfortunately the viewpoint that homosexuality is a problem or something needs to be treated still seems to persist somehow.

I know, my niece is awesome, I love her to death.

So gay people shouldn't be able to adopt, yet straight people, no matter how bad a parent they may be are able to adopt?

It doesn't matter who the parents have sex with, as long as they can raise the children well then gay people should be allowed to adopt. The same way trailer trash shouldn't be allowed to adopt.

Well yes, because other family members will stay raise you with correct morals and principles (mostly), however homosexuals, although they're all 'nice and friendly' (bloody hell I hate it when people say that about them), it's still COMPLETELY wrong, and the child immediately starts life with one major mistake - that homosexuality, homosexual parents, homosexual adoption and everything inbetween is perfectly fine.

Well that's where people just aren't going to agree...

I do have to ask though... what IS it that makes homosexuality wrong?

It IS perfectly fine.

It is none of yours or anyone else's business who someone is attracted to, or who they have sex with as long as it is between consenting adults.

If they adopt then as long as they raise the kid with the right morals and values then it doesn't matter if the parents are of the same gender.

You're narrow minded, and that's ok, it's your life and I don't give a shit as long as you aren't sitting on the adoption judging panel.

If I ever have a kid and he/she turns out to be gay then I'd love them all the same. I'd still want grandkids though (I so want to be a crazy old grandpa who can pull off his thumb and find coins behind ears) so if adoption was the only way of that happening then I would hate it if narrow minded bigots stopped my kids from finding happiness.



I won't be coming back into this thread as I can see that I'm only going to get angry and abusive. Agreeing to disagree or whatever

Well Ink, I know you're Christian, so I imagine your views on homosexuality are in line with your faith, and if that is the case, then that's fair enough and I respect your beliefs and your opinion.

But I will suggest that this isn't simply a case of what is "right and wrong", there is no right and wrong when it comes to what gender one is attracted to.

Some could say that you've been raised wrong because your beliefs are just simple regurgitations of a global multinational corporation. It's a matter of opinion, and people realising that is a good way to start.

As for gay couples, yeah, I'm for them adopting. What's worse? A child growing up a adoption home where they're just waiting for a parent to choose them, or a child who will go to a home where the same-sex parents will more likely be understanding of everything that may have happened in the childs past, due to persecutions they themselves have recieved for their sexual preference?

I'll go with parents over non-parents, all the way. If you're against two men or two women bringing up a child, you'll have to be against single parenting by proxy, because it's the same thing; a single father or mother who may go through multiple boy/girl friends would send the exact same type of message a same-sex couple would, if you are saying that.

This is true, however 90% of my disagreement of homosexuality is just my opinion - nothing to do with my religion. I just think it's wrong. Seriously. Man and woman should be how it is. And I know and understand this whole 'if they love each other, they should be able to do what they want' but I still just... whatever.

I don't want to draw extremes, but what about beastiality?

"I don't care what you think - I love the dog, and I know the dog loves me, so give us our rights."

My final words for this thread: It's simply wrong and unnatural.

So... consenting, intelligent human adults interact at the level of dogs now?

Okay, that's me out of this thread too, the fact is, I know I don't have as much respect for other peoples opinions as much of Evo's population and I won't be able to stay polite if I keep reading comments like that.

A dog is also outside of our species. It's not a fair comparison, and hence shouldn't even be part of your arguement.

Saying that it's your own opinion is fine, but saying that it hasn't been influenced by your religious beliefes is hard to swallow. Everything influences upon us, and the fact that the church (which apparently has a large role in your upbringing) has NOT impacted on that belief doesn't feel right.

Edit - dammit freak I WAS RIGHT THERE

If you just compared homosexuality to bestiality, you've just lost any respect I ever had for you.

This thread is treading dangerous territory a bit here, I don't want this to get ugly, or have anyone insulted here.

Please, remember everyone that what you say here may offend/upset someone, and we don't want that sort of thing.

It's just that bullying always starts from the most obvious things... as in glasses, fat, red hair etc. I would think gay parents would be way up there.

Yeah but I'm sure a kid who is adopted regardless of whether the parents are gay or not, is suspect to bullying in the school yard regardless.

I was raised by two women and I don't think there's anything seriously wrong with me. I certainly don't feel like I had an unnatural or hash upbringing and I think that it's much more important to have loving caring parents than what sex they are.

If you want to get outraged about something, what about potential mothers drinking and smoking while they're pregnant? They're giving their kids permanent brain damage and developmental problems and surely that's going to cause a lot more bullying if that's our standard of acceptableness.

The Bible, which is of course the final word on all things moral and applies to every single human being on the planet regardless of their religious beliefs. Guys, what the fuck. I'm pretty disappointed by this thread. I don't know if it's just me being from a really liberal city in America, or what, but I can't believe what I'm reading. Gay parents are better than unfit parents who shouldn't have a child. Having two moms or two dads isn't harsh, having alcoholic parents or having parents who are never home or having parents who beat you - that's harsh. Love and support is what matters in raising a kid, not what genitalia their parents have. Also, as a high schooler, if anyone in my school had gay parents, I don't think ANYONE would care. You're not going to lose friends or significant others or be outcast because you have same-sex parents.

This reminds me of how a while ago in the summer I was in a protest along with a lot of other teenagers in my school. We stood and sat on our parked cars outside a pro-homosexuality church holding signs supporting homosexuality. We got so many great reactions, a lot of honking and cheering and people stopping to tell us what a great thing we were doing. But there were more people than I would have liked yelling at us - people were full blown cursing and giving the middle finger to a group of teenage kids. And then, some man literally leaned out his car window and spat on me. An adult man spat on a sixteen year old girl because I think love isn't confined to gender. Warms the heart, doesn't it?

Also, I'm really open about my sexuality at my school, and no one has a problem with it - or at least no one who's mature. When we were getting the freshmen to sign up for clubs, I was at the Gay-Straight Alliance table, since I'm president, and I heard freshmen snickering and calling me a dyke or a faggot. But in a year or two they all snap out of it and realize it's normal.

And one last point - the "homosexuality is unnatural" argument is bullshit as well. Among the approximately 1500 animal species whose behavior has been extensively studied, homosexual behavior in animals has been described in at least 450 of those species. It also varies from occasional displays of affection to life-long pair bonding including sex and even adopting and raising orphans, going so far as the rejection by force of potential heterosexual partners.

Yes, hm. Very unnatural.

The Bible isn't the final authority in everyone's life, since last time I checked, it wasn't the law. If you're just uncomfortable, fine, but don't make gays suffer for your ignorance.

As much as I didn't intend on doing so, I'm going to stick my beak into this thread once more because of something Angra just said - the argument that homosexuality is unnatural.

I'm sitting in front of an liquid crystal display powered and directed by a computer made of silicon semi-conductors, able to view it because of my carbon fibre corrective lenses, that also allowed me to shift my vehicle made of one and a half tons of molded steel to the shops earlier this morning via the power of its internal combustion engine. When I got out of this automobile I walked my genetically engineered and selectively conditioned canine to one of the uprooted and smooth carved tree trunks that supports our aluminium electron cables and tied him to it with a synthetic weave cable. After buying a hormone fed, artificially fattened chicken that was matured in a time span of 4 months from birth and kept from developing a beak or feet at any point I repeated the process to get back home.

So how about that nature being the root of morality and normality, huh?

It seems to me that as a species we've transcended whats natural.

Fixed.




Again on the natural vs unnatural.

So someone coming back from the dead is natural?
A virgin giving birth?
Someone being their own father?

Please, if someone's going to use the bible as a measure of morals then I may as well take the Lord of the Rings as a historical text.

Angra, wow so you have a Gay-Straight Alliance club at your high school! I didn't see that sort of thing until I got to university, by this time most students are mature enough to not make the silly remarks that the freshman would in your experience. Though that’s not to say homosexuality was accepted by everyone, in high school kids would tease someone who was gay/thought to be gay, but at university you'd only see that sort of prejudice in the toilet stalls via graffiti on the walls, no one would have the guts to say anything to the face of people anymore. It’s amazing how much crap I had read over the years, not just homophobia as well, but racism, sexism you name it! And at university the people are supposed to be somewhat intelligent! Sadly prejudice remains wherever you go.

So while for many people as they get older, realise that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, that certainly isn't the case with everyone, something you would already know anyway having an adult man spit at you for being at a protest, that’s pathetic.

Well, I've tried to stay out of this, but here I go.

Look, there's obviously going to be a gigantic schism between the conservative and the liberal, here. I, myself, fall into the former category.

You have to look at everything from both sides. So far, everyone's being rather narrow-minded. Liberals will argue that conservative narrow-mindedness is 'arrogance'; equally, conservatives will debate that the liberals here 'lack morals'.

I have nothing against homosexuality. However, I will admit that I, personally, don't believe it to be 'natural'. I absolutely do not put this before my friendships and relationships with others - I know a couple of homosexuals and several bisexuals, and get along very well with them. Hell, I even went out with a bi. Of course, I don't doubt the capability of a homosexual couple to nurture a child; if there's love, then fine. But equally, why should they have preference over a heterosexual pair, who, for example, have been trying desperately to conceive, but with no success? A child should go to a couple who are naturally able to make a child before those who cannot.

I don't know the pure statistics on this but anyway, wouldn't there be more orphan children than couples/people willing to adopt them anyway? Meaning that statistically it's impossible for a homosexual couple to ever adopt a child before a heterosexual couple, simply because there are more children than adoptive parents, or in other words more supply than demand.

Forgive me for thinking about this like an economist, and treating children as 'commodities', clearly this analysis is a simplification, but it does address the concern you raise from the conservative side and makes it a non issue.

The greater 'supply' means that a heterosexual couple wouldn’t be 'disadvantaged' by a homosexual couple, or in other words there's enough children for everyone. Hence we can raise the demand of orphan children through allowing homosexual parents, I would guess that homosexual couples would be more willing to adopt because it is the only choice they have, whereas a heterosexual couple probably take adoption as a 'last resort'. Thus if raising the demand through allowing homosexual couples to freely adopt provides more loving families to these children, then I see nothing wrong with that at all.

Despite that hundreds of other species of animals also exhibit homosexual tendencies. What makes something "natural" anyway, I would have thought "occurring in nature" would be a pretty good definition.

Instead of worrying about the rights of the parents don't you think it'd be better to think about the children?

In my opinion, should there be a limited number of children (in comparison to people wanting to adopt) they should go to the parents best able to care and nurture them, rather than who "wants them most" or whatever.

Either way, you're not providing an argument against Gay Adoption, just the circumstances when it should occur which is pretty different.

You can argue as much as you want about homosexuality occuring in nature; something being 'natural' in this case (and an 'inherent moral sense', or 'instinctiveness' is an equally competent definition) is a matter of opinion (hence my use of the word personally), and in my eyes, I don't believe homosexuality to be so. Like I've said, it doesn't particurlarly bother me at all to see same-sex partners, but equally, to me, it doesn't seem right.

As aforesaid on my part, there's not going to be any resolve in this department. I will say that, in a traditional family, a child should be founded upon the love of a man and a woman. A growing child acquires certain things from his/her mother that they will not acquire from his/her father and vice versa. Ergo, it makes more sense to place a child in the care of heterosexual parents whereby he/she will have, 'the best of both', so to speak.

I think I love you Angra, you too Quatters. :P

Anyway... Apart from the homosexuality in other species thing, the general "stat" is that 1/10 of people are gay. If you were to include bi-sexual people in that number, I believe it would be a LOT higher, at least half.

1/10 is not unnatural... 1/1000 would be closer, such as birth defects where the body has not developed properly.

I love the fact that it's being talked about to, getting it in the public forum really help with people's understanding of it.

Well can you consider people who are attracted to gingers as unnatural?
Not many people are, probably less than 1/10, hence it's more unnatural than homosexuality! Or then discriminate against people who are attracted to blondes/brunettes/muscular/skinny/tall/short.

Seriously, where does it end?

Well, Australia isn't really a religious country, so it's be interesting to see just what percent of people are Christians too. lol Or people that like Heavy Metal.

A usless fact that doesn't really have anything to do with this, but 1 in 20 people in Australia own Delta's first album. Haha

That's because we have a very large portion of beer drinkers and the 50c specials from JB Hi-Fi's bargain bin make excellent coasters :P